Android OS Forum banner
81 - 100 of 102 Posts

·
Android Apprentice
Joined
·
135 Posts
Koush and Slayher have both posted that AOSP was now closed source as well as the kernel. I cannot however find anything other than a press release about them testing the code on the sites.

It is hard to say what is going on yet.
 

·
Average Android
Joined
·
116 Posts
Not even Google could decide to make the kernel closed source. They would be dragged into court so fast and have their ass completely handed to them in such a brutal way that it wouldn't even be funny.
 

·
Kernel Dev
Joined
·
897 Posts
"loonatik78 said:
Yeah... Probably worked on UNIX systems like my dad did and used to ride a dinosaur to the warehouse it took to contain the computer. I don't really care if he worked on machines with thermionic valves; Ziggy is a thief. I don't have a problem with you, but I will pick a bone with anyone defending Ziggy's cowardly ways. Some of you brag you're running a ROM with Ziggy's "legendary" kernel. I think that's stupid. Why don't you just put in your signature "I'm all for destroying the Open Source community!" I also think that's stupid because I haven't run one of his kernels in the last 3 months that wasn't a world class heap of crap. The one he was dishing out to Virus and Chingy around that time had governors so poorly tuned you could barely type into a field on a web page. And for reasons I can't explain, you can't fix them! His "lagfree" governor is anything but. No matter what I did to that governor, I couldn't get the lag out. A few nights ago I went to Imoseyon's 3.7.0 kernel and found that his smartass acted like it should. In fact, it was so free of lag I was able to adjust the governor to act much more conservatively and STILL see no lag! Where I did have issues was with the swap, but a few tweaks to a script ironed that right out.

I point this out because Imoseyon's kernel (on Sense) should be the choice of those who give a hoot about the GPL. The popularity of Ziggy's kernel, in my opinion, reflects the mindset that ultimately led to the community breakdown at XDA. It's a mindset of "Just gimme the goods; to hell with rules, law, right and wrong, respect, and the community! Just GIMME, GIMME GIMME!!!". It's not the job of mods to weed out this sickness. It's a choice Android users should be making. And if you're content with how Ziggy does business, please move along to WP7 or BlackBerry or iFone. We don't want you or need you.
I introduced lagfeee to the tbolt, not Ziggy (although its not mine to begin with) :).

But anyway, since I can't get in touch with Ziggy I can't defend him.
 

·
Average Android
Joined
·
116 Posts
jdkoreclipse said:
I introduced lagfeee to the tbolt, not Ziggy (although its not mine to begin with) :).

But anyway, since I can't get in touch with Ziggy I can't defend him.
Lagfree seems like a simple solution, and its far better than Ziggy's idea of a smartass, but I Just couldn't get it to behave. After it idled down, there would always be this lag. I adjusted about everything I could, but it was always there. I'm thinking its not the governor, but rather something about the kernel.
 

·
Android Addict
Joined
·
575 Posts
"loonatik78 said:
Good question! It's a question a LOT more Android users should be asking. I'm happy to answer...

The Open Source community can be summed up as a community of developers and users that believe in and practice leaving source code open to the end user, and volunteering any source they may alter back to the community in an effort to foster evolution of the code. In effect, it's communal development. GPL stand for General Public License, and is a form of copyleft, as opposed to copyright, of software, and explicitly lays out the legal nature of the material that it addresses. The GPL is the foundation of Open Source.

Android, which is covered under the Apache licence, is powered by the Linux kernel. In order to remain compliant with Apache, compliance with the GPL must be adhered to. Ziggy develops Linux kernels for Android. Under GPLv2, two requirement must be met to develop any Linux kernel. First, source code must be provided upon request, and second, a copy of the GPLv2 must accompany and distribution of Linux. The second condition is met because Android comes with a copy of the GPL in the "About Phone..." section of "Settings". The first condition, providing source code, must be met by the developer.

Ziggy has not released source for any of his kernels in roughly 4 months, and has never released source for the gingerbread branch he's been working on. This puts him wildly outside the legal bounds of the GPL. His actions are criminal in the truest sense of the word. But the greater issue has to do with his theft from the community. The effect the GPL has on Linux is to make the source code legal community property. Nobody has any personal right to it, whether they wrote it or not. Ziggy conducts himself as though it IS his property, to decide who does and doesn't get it, and who's allowed to use it. This is simply wrong. Ziggy KNOWS this. Unfortunately, too few people understand what the GPL is, what the Apache license is, how they've influenced the Android community. In short, there would be no Android development community like we know it if it weren't for the GPL and the Apache licence. AOSP would NEVER have been born.
I thought kernels behaves differently on different phones ran ziggys on g3d and it was stable as hell the only rebooted I had was when I decided to I put kangbang on cm7 my phone went retarded. And I wanna know what is he exactly stealing if its open source.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,348 Posts
villae81 said:
Uhh I think that site got hack so its temporarily down for now
Yeah it did earlier this week (all of kernel.org). It's the reason Linus is temporally hosting the Linux Kernel at github.
 

·
Average Android
Joined
·
116 Posts
villae81 said:
I thought kernels behaves differently on different phones ran ziggys on g3d and it was stable as hell the only rebooted I had was when I decided to I put kangbang on cm7 my phone went retarded. And I wanna know what is he exactly stealing if its open source.
A kernel should always perform the same on every device so long as the hardware is the same. There's not a random circuit generator in the hardware, and there's no random code generator in the software. Ziggy is stealing the source code for his kernel from the community. Open Source isn't a one way street, it's a two way street. One lane allows anyone to obtain code and do with it as they please, but the other lane of traffic dictates you share that code with the community. It's not optional. If you're not putting traffic on both the coming and going lanes of the open source highway, you're stealing. But lets say someone says "But Ziggy put his own work into it! It's his time, effort, skill, and experience! Not mine or yours or "the community's!" That would be completely WRONG. When Ziggy obtained code and modified it, he accepted the terms and conditions of GPLv2, and GPLv2 gives him NO LEGAL RIGHTS of ownership to any of his work, but instead clearly identifies the community as the rightful owners of Ziggy's personal work on the Linux kernel. The idea of theft through neglect or lack of action is an alien concept to a capitalistic society where personal property rights are intrinsic to our way of thinking of the world, but it is in fact the case here. Linux isn't capitalist and it respects no man's personal rights. It's communist, in the purest sense. It's "from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" and it's not optional.

I never thought I'd be defending the ideals of communism, but lets face facts, communism does have a use. Strip it of it's 100 years of ugly political rhetoric, and you've got yourself an excellent model for software development. That's what Linux is.
 
  • Like
Reactions: phooky

·
Android Addict
Joined
·
575 Posts
"loonatik78 said:
A kernel should always perform the same on every device so long as the hardware is the same. There's not a random circuit generator in the hardware, and there's no random code generator in the software. Ziggy is stealing the source code for his kernel from the community. Open Source isn't a one way street, it's a two way street. One lane allows anyone to obtain code and do with it as they please, but the other lane of traffic dictates you share that code with the community. It's not optional. If you're not putting traffic on both the coming and going lanes of the open source highway, you're stealing. But lets say someone says "But Ziggy put his own work into it! It's his time, effort, skill, and experience! Not mine or yours or "the community's!" That would be completely WRONG. When Ziggy obtained code and modified it, he accepted the terms and conditions of GPLv2, and GPLv2 gives him NO LEGAL RIGHTS of ownership to any of his work, but instead clearly identifies the community as the rightful owners of Ziggy's personal work on the Linux kernel. The idea of theft through neglect or lack of action is an alien concept to a capitalistic society where personal property rights are intrinsic to our way of thinking of the world, but it is in fact the case here. Linux isn't capitalist and it respects no man's personal rights. It's communist, in the purest sense. It's "from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" and it's not optional.

I never thought I'd be defending the ideals of communism, but lets face facts, communism does have a use. Strip it of it's 100 years of ugly political rhetoric, and you've got yourself an excellent model for software development. That's what Linux is.
Oh okay now I see basically gpl hands you a piece of paper and pencil and say here do whatever you want with it but whatever you make with it let it be picasso or davinci you have no right to it. But whoever makes the phones can put it in their next product so the android community can pay for it. Or am I misunderstanding what your saying?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,348 Posts
villae81 said:
Oh okay now I see basically gpl hands you a piece of paper and pencil and say here do whatever you want with it but whatever you make with it let it be picasso or davinci you have no right to it. But whoever makes the phones can put it in their next product so the android community can pay for it. Or am I misunderstanding what your saying?
GPL is far more than just android. It encompasses a large portion of the software the runs on linux in general.

GPL says you can take what you want in an "all you can eat," style farmer's market, but anything you prepare as food with what you took, you have to share (for free) with everyone else in the community afterwards IF you intend on distributing it for others to have as well.

Basically that is to prevent someone from selling the software for profit or being selfish. There are those that still sell the software on CDs for people who do not want to download it, but they must also offer the source for free somehow nonetheless.

If you want to read more, check out the wiki on it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GPL
 

·
Android Addict
Joined
·
575 Posts
"yarly said:
GPL is far more than just android. It encompasses a large portion of the software the runs on linux in general.

GPL says you can take what you want in an "all you can eat," style farmer's market, but anything you prepare as food with what you took, you have to share (for free) with everyone else in the community afterwards IF you intend on distributing it for others to have as well.

Basically that is to prevent someone from selling the software for profit or being selfish. There are those that still the software on CDs for people who do not want to download it, but they must also offer the source for free somehow nonetheless.

If you want to read more, check out the wiki on it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GPL
Man I'm feeling so ignorant right now but I gotta ask one more ? I'm assuming when you say everybody that includes me you Ziggy phone makers right? So were basicallly paying 600 dollars for paper weight Coz its obvious the os is Google and its open source and under gpl law its free to everybody right?
 

·
Average Android
Joined
·
116 Posts
villae81 said:
Man I'm feeling so ignorant right now but I gotta ask one more ? I'm assuming when you say everybody that includes me you Ziggy phone makers right? So were basicallly paying 600 dollars for paper weight Coz its obvious the os is Google and its open source and under gpl law its free to everybody right?
Android isn't GPL. It's licensed under Apache. It's a more permissive license. I suppose you could say its free, buy I really don't feel like building my own build of Android or a nice UI for it. Or making the equipment myself.
 

·
Android Addict
Joined
·
575 Posts
"loonatik78 said:
Android isn't GPL. It's licensed under Apache. It's a more permissive license. I suppose you could say its free, buy I really don't feel like building my own build of Android or a nice UI for it. Or making the equipment myself.
I didn't say android is gpl I said its open source so it falls under gpl law. You don't like to build your own so you'll pay a company to build you one which is supposedly free is that what your saying ? Lets say Ziggy is that company making this os for your phone would you still rant about him being a thief or not Coz he's got his own pretty logo like HTC Motorola etc.
 

·
Kernel Dev
Joined
·
897 Posts
villae81 said:
I didn't say android is gpl I said its open source so it falls under gpl law. You don't like to build your own so you'll pay a company to build you one which is under the gpl law so it supposedly free is that what your saying ? Lets say Ziggy is that company making this os for your phone would you still rant about him being a thief or not Coz he's got his own pretty logo like HTC Motorola etc.
Android is under Apache, not GPL. Apache is diffrent.

Linux or linux based kernels are undr the GPL. Linux based includes Android monolithic kernels, such as OEM sources android/kernel_common source, or any custom sources (ziggy).
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,348 Posts
villae81 said:
I didn't say android is gpl I said its open source so it falls under gpl law. You don't like to build your own so you'll pay a company to build you one which is supposedly free is that what your saying ? Lets say Ziggy is that company making this os for your phone would you still rant about him being a thief or not Coz he's got his own pretty logo like HTC Motorola etc.
If Ziggy built his own kernel from the ground up (without taking from the linux kernel) or modified a kernel source that used a more permissive license (such as on of the bsd/unix variants which fall under a license similar to the one the Android OS [sans kernel] uses), which would be way too much work), then he could close off everything and give nothing back if he did not feel like it.

HTC, Moto, et al. do not have to give back their modifications to the Android OS source (not to be confused with the kernel), which is modders have to work with the compiled libraries when they mod Sense and other Frameworks that come on the non-nexus phones.
 
81 - 100 of 102 Posts
Top