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Former #1 troll.
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1,465 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
im torn about my next verizon phone, ill be upgrading, well buying full price in january and im torn between the vigor or the nexus prime if it comes. tbh im not thrilled about htc phones much anymore. the moto razor looks cool but the locked bootloader is a deal breaker.

what phone are you guys giving up your tbolt for?
 

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Android Addict
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Meh, to me I have gotten to the point of realizing it's always greener on the other side. Right now the Thunderbolt is holding up well for me, it's fast, and has great development so I will probably stick with it for the two years then buy a quad core phone. I have 4G which to me is more important than dual core so for now I am happy, even if there are phones with both its not worth $500+ to get a "minor" upgrade.
 

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Former #1 troll.
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1,465 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
miketoasty said:
Meh, to me I have gotten to the point of realizing it's always greener on the other side. Right now the Thunderbolt is holding up well for me, it's fast, and has great development so I will probably stick with it for the two years then buy a quad core phone. I have 4G which to me is more important than dual core so for now I am happy, even if there are phones with both its not worth $500+ to get a "minor" upgrade.
i think the tbolt development has slowed to a crawl as new phones approach. as far as a quad core in a phone, it is pointless and unless they come up with new battery technology the life will suck hard! im leaning more towards the prime with ice cream.
 

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Android Addict
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fixxxer2012 said:
i think the tbolt development has slowed to a crawl as new phones approach. as far as a quad core in a phone, it is pointless and unless they come up with new battery technology the life will suck hard! im leaning more towards the prime with ice cream.
Well, I could have guessed your first line since that's all you have said in the last 3 threads I have seen you post in. Development is doing just fine with the final release of Gingerbread, a new BAMF Forever, 2 new dev's jumping on board, a new CM release, a new Chingy release, a new OMFGB release, I could go on but I will stop here.

Adding more cores actually increases battery life, which was why they ventured to them in the first place.

The Thunderbolt will get Ice Cream Sandwhich, probably only from CM but that is good enough for me.
 

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Former #1 troll.
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1,465 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
miketoasty said:
Well, I could have guessed your first line since that's all you have said in the last 3 threads I have seen you post in. Development is doing just fine with the final release of Gingerbread, a new BAMF Forever, 2 new dev's jumping on board, a new CM release, a new Chingy release, a new OMFGB release, I could go on but I will stop here.

Adding more cores actually increases battery life, which was why they ventured to them in the first place.

The Thunderbolt will get Ice Cream Sandwhich, probably only from CM but that is good enough for me.
on xda yes i did post that alot because it's a ghost town there, it's a bit better here though.
 

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Tbolter
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Definitely won't be upgrading until the end of 2012 at the earliest. Once I get new every two pricing I usually cannot resist an upgrade which will come the end of next year. By then we should be seeing quad core phones, with full android OS support for that technology, with great strides being made in battery technology also that should be implemented into phones by that time. I stuck with an env touch for over 2 years and although I went through 9 of them it was an okay phone and a top of the line phone at the time I bought it, then 5 months later the droid/eris came out and I was pretty upset to say the least. lol.

The thunderbolt is an amazing phone once you have it configured properly, CM7 1.8 w/ slayhers kernel and the latest OTA radios is working beautifully. Seemless 3G to 4G transitions, instant GPS locks and very accurate ones at that. Battery life is on par with any other large screened phone with a new 4G antenna 16-20 hours with moderate use (~45 minutes browsing, 300+ texts, ~45 minutes rootzwiki forum app, some google reader quick views and a couple of 3-5 minute phone calls) Works perfect for me and I have never come to the point where I've run out of battery too early in the day, except in sketchy signal areas like northern michigan where there is only 1X and occasional 3G that will drain the battery in about 3 hours, simple fix: turn off data/gps/wifi while I'm there since its next to useless anyway.

I am not even considering a new phone yet, nothing is really appealing to me at this moment. I'm sure the next Nexus phone will be seemingly godlike when it is released, but 8 months later something else will come along to trample its face in. It's a never ending struggle to keep up with technology, but I've learned if it gets you through the day and you still like the phone/computer/functionality then stick with it until it's time to upgrade or if something fails. And that's what insurance is for :p Currently rocking a 1G ipod touch, Mid 2009 Macbook Pro, and late 2006 Xbox 360 (llamma heatsink mods/arctic silver heatsink paste to solve the dreaded RROD) ;) All still in perfect working order. Then theres what I'm currently typing on, a Hp Pavilion zt3000 notebook, manufactured in 02, running linux mint and still chugging along like a champ. You guys seem a little obsessive with phones, although I know I am as well since I know about it the instant it's posted on any one of the android blogs ;). With everything so open source about android and having such great developers I'm sure the thunderbolt will still be rocked by a lot of people for at least the next year and a half. I will be one of those people :) Thunderbolt ftw.
 

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Android Addict
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fixxxer2012 said:
on xda yes i did post that alot because it's a ghost town there, it's a bit better here though.
o_O how dareth you speaketh abouteth XDAeth. Lol yea that place died from being complete Nazi's to all the dev's. If I had to pick a phone I would go with the Prime if it is a true google experience phone.
 

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Former #1 troll.
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1,465 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
miketoasty said:
o_O how dareth you speaketh abouteth XDAeth. Lol yea that place died from being complete Nazi's to all the dev's. If I had to pick a phone I would go with the Prime if it is a true google experience phone.
yeah i think i am going to go with the prime, maybe even a lg phone if they release another high end model. i like my tbolt but the lte is buggy as heck.
 

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Android Lover
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556 Posts
I will not be upgrading until March of 2012. so who knows really. but the nexus/galaxy prime is looking/sounding like an awesome phone. but if i have the chance to buy a nexus phone, i will buy one even if it is out of date (still looking for a super cheap Nexus1 on CL to tinker with)

but i have a feeling ICS will be on the TB by christmas, so that will hold me over for a bit.
 

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Average Android
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116 Posts
miketoasty said:
Well, I could have guessed your first line since that's all you have said in the last 3 threads I have seen you post in. Development is doing just fine with the final release of Gingerbread, a new BAMF Forever, 2 new dev's jumping on board, a new CM release, a new Chingy release, a new OMFGB release, I could go on but I will stop here.

Adding more cores actually increases battery life, which was why they ventured to them in the first place.

The Thunderbolt will get Ice Cream Sandwhich, probably only from CM but that is good enough for me.
I'm not aware of any dual core device that makes any gains on battery life. OMAP4 really doesn't, and neither does MSM8660. I'm not really sure where this silly idea came from. It's been accepted wisdom in laptops that additional cores eat more power, not conserve it. The idea that power is saved defies the laws of physics. Take the MSM8660 for instance (the SoC in the EVO 3D). It uses a pair of scorpion cores that are nearly identical to the one in the Tbolt. To run at 1.2GHz requires about 1.15 to 1.2 volts or so. How can running TWO cores at that voltage save power? It's pretty simple; it does not. Neither does idling 2 cores at about .8 volts. Nothing about the concept saves power. The only way to say it saves power is to compare it to one large core that meets the performance specs of 2 small cores. Even in that, you're gains aren't realized in some magic inherent in multiple cores. You're gains are realized in scale of number of components, such as a pair of ALUs, a pair of L1 caches, a pair of identical pipelines. These are features that one wouldn't normally integrate into a single core and still call it a single core. Just as the rule has been for the last 30 years at least, integrated circuits don't see power savings until scaling size shrinks. OMAP4 and MSM8660 don't shrink anything on the die therefore power savings is impossible. The cold hard fact is MSM8660 eats MORE power than MSM8560 (the SoC in the Tbolt). Until future dual cores and possible quad cores significantly shrink feature size, no gain in power savings will be made; in fact the opposite will be true.
 

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Android Apprentice
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62 Posts
I think the way I'm going to decide next time is, when my TB dies I'll go to these forums and look where all the current views are at. And then I'll make sure it has all the features I want once I know there is a dev backing to the device. I just picked the TB originally because it seemed kind of cool on the VZW site (I hadn't been following CES news or anything about new devices but found out later it was one of the most anticipated Androids). So far though, I think my TB is pretty damn solid. There has been a lot of brick scares and also us being treated like the red-headed step children when it comes to GB being released, not to mention an upgraded version of Sense UI, but really the biggest problem I've seen has been in having a working RIL in all the popular ROMs from other phones. I'd love to have the opportunity to use MIUI as a daily driver, but for the time being we have all the matured Sense ROMs and some very good AOSP ROMs as well.
 

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Android Apprentice
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loonatik78 said:
I'm not aware of any dual core device that makes any gains on battery life. OMAP4 really doesn't, and neither does MSM8660. I'm not really sure where this silly idea came from. It's been accepted wisdom in laptops that additional cores eat more power, not conserve it. The idea that power is saved defies the laws of physics. Take the MSM8660 for instance (the SoC in the EVO 3D). It uses a pair of scorpion cores that are nearly identical to the one in the Tbolt. To run at 1.2GHz requires about 1.15 to 1.2 volts or so. How can running TWO cores at that voltage save power? It's pretty simple; it does not. Neither does idling 2 cores at about .8 volts. Nothing about the concept saves power. The only way to say it saves power is to compare it to one large core that meets the performance specs of 2 small cores. Even in that, you're gains aren't realized in some magic inherent in multiple cores. You're gains are realized in scale of number of components, such as a pair of ALUs, a pair of L1 caches, a pair of identical pipelines. These are features that one wouldn't normally integrate into a single core and still call it a single core. Just as the rule has been for the last 30 years at least, integrated circuits don't see power savings until scaling size shrinks. OMAP4 and MSM8660 don't shrink anything on the die therefore power savings is impossible. The cold hard fact is MSM8660 eats MORE power than MSM8560 (the SoC in the Tbolt). Until future dual cores and possible quad cores significantly shrink feature size, no gain in power savings will be made; in fact the opposite will be true.
Easy answer: 1 + 1 = 1. Geez man.
 

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Average Android
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116 Posts
DeTard said:
Easy answer: 1 + 1 = 1. Geez man.
Yeah, then I get fools with 20 opinions and no facts that want to argue with me. So I back up what I say with FACTS. Sorry if it's an inconvenience to you.
 
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Not Your Average Android
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fixxxer2012 said:
on xda yes i did post that alot because it's a ghost town there, it's a bit better here though.
Not to mention you were suspended for making threads like this one. You're always talking about how development has died, you've been saying it for weeks, yet roms keep getting updated and new devs keep surfacing. If you want a new phone, then get it. The TB community will be just fine. My new phone will be here tomorrow. In my opinion no one can tell me which phone is best for me. Ask 20 people, get 20 different opinions.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk
 

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Android Addict
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698 Posts
"miketoasty said:
Meh, to me I have gotten to the point of realizing it's always greener on the other side. Right now the Thunderbolt is holding up well for me, it's fast, and has great development so I will probably stick with it for the two years then buy a quad core phone. I have 4G which to me is more important than dual core so for now I am happy, even if there are phones with both its not worth $500+ to get a "minor" upgrade.
+1!!
10 chars
 

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teh Jax
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2,677 Posts
Scorch said:
By then we should be seeing quad core phones, with full android OS support for that technology, with great strides being made in battery technology also that should be implemented into phones by that time.
Can you elaborate on these great strides in battery technology? I'm interested but apparently ignorant.
 

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teh Jax
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2,677 Posts
loonatik78 said:
I'm not aware of any dual core device that makes any gains on battery life. OMAP4 really doesn't, and neither does MSM8660. I'm not really sure where this silly idea came from. It's been accepted wisdom in laptops that additional cores eat more power, not conserve it. The idea that power is saved defies the laws of physics. Take the MSM8660 for instance (the SoC in the EVO 3D). It uses a pair of scorpion cores that are nearly identical to the one in the Tbolt. To run at 1.2GHz requires about 1.15 to 1.2 volts or so. How can running TWO cores at that voltage save power? It's pretty simple; it does not. Neither does idling 2 cores at about .8 volts. Nothing about the concept saves power. The only way to say it saves power is to compare it to one large core that meets the performance specs of 2 small cores. Even in that, you're gains aren't realized in some magic inherent in multiple cores. You're gains are realized in scale of number of components, such as a pair of ALUs, a pair of L1 caches, a pair of identical pipelines. These are features that one wouldn't normally integrate into a single core and still call it a single core. Just as the rule has been for the last 30 years at least, integrated circuits don't see power savings until scaling size shrinks. OMAP4 and MSM8660 don't shrink anything on the die therefore power savings is impossible. The cold hard fact is MSM8660 eats MORE power than MSM8560 (the SoC in the Tbolt). Until future dual cores and possible quad cores significantly shrink feature size, no gain in power savings will be made; in fact the opposite will be true.
DeTard said:
Easy answer: 1 + 1 = 1. Geez man.
loonatik78 said:
Yeah, then I get fools with 20 opinions and no facts that want to argue with me. So I back up what I say with FACTS. Sorry if it's an inconvenience to you.
I'm not entirely sure what he was talking about but I both agree with him/disagree with you as well as disagree with him/agree with you. ;-)

So the current generation of multi-core chips - ain't gonna "save power". Next generation? I dunno. But at some point, we WILL see multi-core chips that will save us battery power. Imagine a chip that has 3 cores on it: 2 of which are what we're used to in a dual-core phone (let's say they're 1.5GHz) but the third core is NOT identical to the other two but is, instead, a core that is incredibly power-optimized but peaks out at 500MHz. I'd bet you that this three-core phone would smoke our single-core TBolt in battery life since we all know that this 500MHz core would be sufficiently capable enough to handle our TBolt for ~75% of the time. Only the other 25% would we need to engage the power-sucking 1.5GHz cores (which would still suck power while running at 500MHz when compared to our power-optimized 500MHz core).

Additionally, hopefully ICS will net us a significant boost in power savings once our UI is GPU-optimized and our CPUs don't have to struggle to power our UI stuff as hard, but that's not really a part of this discussion but something I'm looking forward to.

---

Back on topic - as long as the Nexus is what I expect it to be, then that'll be my next phone. If it's not, then I may or may not stick with the TBolt. I'll have to wait and see what the Nexus really is. If it's NOT a pure Google phone like all of the previous Nexuses (Nexii?) have been, then I very likely may not get it. I strongly want a pure vanilla LTE/ICS phone.
 

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Android Apprentice
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126 Posts
First time using rootzwiki. But just posted in bamf that the vigor is not what I expected considering its 4.3 and not a 4.5" screen. Sux that AT&T has another 4.5 heading their way in the HTC holiday.
First spec sheet I saw on vigor was that it was bigger. Now I may actually go Samsung. Who knows.

I'd like to see a 4.5" screen, 1.5 dual core, ice cream sandwich, unlockable bootloader, HDMI out, and a kickstand. Is that too much too ask? What's the closest?
 

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Average Android
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116 Posts
Jaxidian said:
I'm not entirely sure what he was talking about but I both agree with him/disagree with you as well as disagree with him/agree with you. ;-)

So the current generation of multi-core chips - ain't gonna "save power". Next generation? I dunno. But at some point, we WILL see multi-core chips that will save us battery power. Imagine a chip that has 3 cores on it: 2 of which are what we're used to in a dual-core phone (let's say they're 1.5GHz) but the third core is NOT identical to the other two but is, instead, a core that is incredibly power-optimized but peaks out at 500MHz. I'd bet you that this three-core phone would smoke our single-core TBolt in battery life since we all know that this 500MHz core would be sufficiently capable enough to handle our TBolt for ~75% of the time. Only the other 25% would we need to engage the power-sucking 1.5GHz cores (which would still suck power while running at 500MHz when compared to our power-optimized 500MHz core).

Additionally, hopefully ICS will net us a significant boost in power savings once our UI is GPU-optimized and our CPUs don't have to struggle to power our UI stuff as hard, but that's not really a part of this discussion but something I'm looking forward to.

---

Back on topic - as long as the Nexus is what I expect it to be, then that'll be my next phone. If it's not, then I may or may not stick with the TBolt. I'll have to wait and see what the Nexus really is. If it's NOT a pure Google phone like all of the previous Nexuses (Nexii?) have been, then I very likely may not get it. I strongly want a pure vanilla LTE/ICS phone.
I'm just going on what I know and what I've seen go down in the PC space for round about 20 years now. To date, I'm not familiar with a processor that include dissimilar cores. I suppose it's possible, but the logistics of just making dual cores work right took years to overcome on PC's. If numbers of cores equated to potential power savings, I suspect you'd have seen 16 core designs by now. An IC's power requirements are primarily the function of the voltage required to operate transistors of a given size. In all current Qualcomm SoC's, that's .45nm on the core. When Qualcomm updates to the Krait core at .28nm, THEN you'll see some real power improvements. But don't be thinking it'll debut in quad core format, because it won't. Qualcomm isn't even suggesting they'll be ready until 1Q of 2013, assuming no delays.

I'm kinda curious about these great advancements in battery technology, too. The last one was lithium polymer-ion batteries (over standard lithium-ion), but that was at best a modest improvement.
 
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